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Why morrowind's fast travel is so much better than skyrim's.

Morrowind provides players with the most uniquely designed fast travel system in the series, and it's much more immersive than what Skyrim delivered.

Bethesda's  The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowwind has the best fast travel system in the series.  The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim might have been efficient when it comes to traveling, but it lacks the design elements present in  Morrowind.  Traversing the world of an  Elder Scrolls game is a key aspect in their entertainment, as they are designed to encourage discovery and exploration.

Skyrim gives players the option to essentially teleport to any location on the map that has been previously uncovered, which is great in its own right. However, without that instant travel players are forced to learn the lay of the land and remember what every route leads to in  Morrowind 's overworld . By today's standards this method is rather inconvenient, but it's also creates another layer of gameplay.

Related: Elder Scrolls: Why Morrowind Is STILL Nearly Everyone's Favorite

There are a few options for traveling in  Morrowind aside from walking. Players are able to commute via a network of silt striders, boats, and magic. The thing is, these aren't all linked together and transports don't go to every area on Morrowind's  map. What this does is it creates a sense of distance in the game and gives landmarks that players can recognize during their journey. Instead of hopping around the map at a moment's notice (ignoring those pesky load times) players must remember where they are going, where they are coming from, and where they are currently. It means more work for the player, but it also means a richer and more meaningful experience. Anyone that has played  Morrowind  will have a hard time forgetting the image of those massive bug-busses on the outskirts of the city.

Why Morrowind's Travel Is Better Than Skyrim's Teleporting

Some might argue that Skyrim has a much better fast travel system because players can go anywhere at the drop of a hat. These worlds are beautiful and deserve to be seen, but 15 minutes of in-game walking can get old quickly.  Skyrim 's system is more efficient, however it fails to create a sense of familiarity which ultimately further immerses the player - although Skyrim  provides various loading screens to help with the brief intermission from gameplay, turning items around over and over isn't terribly engaging.

In  Morrowind the loading screens are simple black screens with a loading bar at the bottom, but players are traveling from one transport location to another. It's akin to learning the routes of the Chicago train system. It can be frustrating at first, but it's part of the overall experience. That's the point and why the people at  Bethesda designed these systems  the way they did.

Skyrim  has a network of carriages that carry players to known and unknown major locations for a fee, something that is likely inspired by  Morrowind's  system . That said, it's not the fast travel system the game is known for and it's unlikely players would choose this option over a free teleport. In Morrowind , every method of travel costs money just as it does in the real world. Whether it be a silk strider, boat ride, teleportation scroll, or paying the mage guild, every transport is an investment.

It's the intention of the developers to bring players into their world to the best of their ability. That subtleness is often replaced with convenience as technology advances, and that's certainly the case in these two titles, which is why  The Elder Scrolls III:  Morrowind 's fast travel is so much better than  Skyrim 's.

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Best and worst fast travel implementations?

  • Thread starter Wrexis
  • Start date Feb 19, 2024

Wrexis

  • Feb 19, 2024

I tried replaying Death Stranding recently, and I forgot that you have to go all the way to a city, then into Sam's room, then talk to Fragile, and then go to another city, and then go all the way back out to where you want to go. It sucks. I realize that the nature of the game probably means this was an intentional design decision, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Just let me open up a map, select a point, and teleport to it? It can be gated of course until the story continues a bit, but don't make me travel to use your fast travel.  

Derbel McDillet

Derbel McDillet

3bc18f2f74563586a98e525b07de8c73

Morrowind has one of the best fast travel implementations ever. It does involve a few more steps than Skyrim, but it is also more flexible (mark/recall). But more importantly, it achieves a greater sense of immersion than Skyrim cause it is integrated with the progression systems and lore framework of the world itself, keeping you immersed even as you pursue 'shortcuts' in exploring. Most FT methods don't really manage to do this, Starfield unfortunately ruins the sense of scale it's going for with its system (so that's my answer for 'worst')  

Richter1887

Richter1887

RDR2 is the worst ever. Just needlessly clunky and not satisfying at all.  

Derbel McDillet said: . Click to expand... Click to shrink...

PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The abominable showman.

Red Dead Redemption 2 and Horizon's fast travel systems suck.  

Praedyth

The worst and best has to be Starfield, because it's most of the game but also skips most of the game. It's really weird.  

Cassius Africanus

Cassius Africanus

I knew Spiderman 2 would be here. The speed of it is great but it's not really special outside of that. There's only a few animations. GTA 5 kind of did the swapping animations better, just less technically impressive.  

Geg

To compare Kojima games, with Death Stranding fast travel at least worked in any area that had a safe room, which means cities, distro centers, and player-created safe houses. The fact that you could warp to any player-created room at least added a little bit more flexibility to where you could travel to. For MGSV though, it's been a while so I don't remember exactly but did you basically need to go to a few specific points on the map, hide in a cardboard box, and wait for the people there to ship you to another point on the map?  

Varjet

Spirit Tracks has the worst warp system in the Zelda series.  

Geg said: To compare Kojima games, with Death Stranding fast travel at least worked in any area that had a safe room, which means cities, distro centers, and player-created safe houses. The fact that you could warp to any player-created room at least added a little bit more flexibility to where you could travel to. For MGSV though, it's been a while so I don't remember exactly but did you basically need to go to a few specific points on the map, hide in a cardboard box, and wait for the people there to ship you to another point on the map? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones

Praedyth said: The worst and best has to be Starfield, because it's most of the game but also skips most of the game. It's really weird. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

345

RDR2's fast travel rules precisely because it sucks. the entire point of that game is that slow travel is awesome  

Magic Mushroom

Magic Mushroom

Derbel McDillet said: Click to expand... Click to shrink...

His Majesty

His Majesty

snausages said: Morrowind has one of the best fast travel implementations ever. It does involve a few more steps than Skyrim, but it is also more flexible (mark/recall). But more importantly, it achieves a greater sense of immersion than Skyrim cause it is integrated with the progression systems and lore framework of the world itself, keeping you immersed even as you pursue 'shortcuts' in exploring. Most FT methods don't really manage to do this, Starfield unfortunately ruins the sense of scale it's going for with its system (so that's my answer for 'worst') Click to expand... Click to shrink...

doops.

Ghost of Tsushima is maybe best, or at least near the tippy top because of how incredibly fast it is, even back on PS4. There were multiple times where I picked a spot on the map to travel to, went to take a sip of my drink and I was already there before my hand touched the glass lol.  

ket

Best: Ghost of Tsushima Worst: Modern god of war games and CDPR games  

ClearMetal

snausages said: Morrowind has one of the best fast travel implementations ever. It does involve a few more steps than Skyrim, but it is also more flexible (mark/recall). But more importantly, it achieves a greater sense of immersion than Skyrim cause it is integrated with the progression systems and lore framework of the world itself, keeping you immersed even as you pursue 'shortcuts' in exploring. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Zor

345 said: RDR2's fast travel rules precisely because it sucks. the entire point of that game is that slow travel is awesome Click to expand... Click to shrink...

smocaine

I like LA Noire's way of asking your partner to drive. Fits the game so well. Like, you could imagine Phelps wanting to go over some notes on the drive.  

Toupee

I don't really like games that encourage fast travel because that to me implies traversal in your game is not fun. One degree of 'fast travel' I'm okay with is stuff like in Link's Awakening. I didn't use fast travel in Death Stranding once.  

Tavernade

I remember really disliking Twilight Princess' back when it first released, I think due to there being too many Fast Travel options and it basically invalidating exploring the map? I guess I could have just ignored it and kept exploring, but teenage me didn't realize the problem until it was too late.  

gitrektali

Richter1887 said: RDR2 is the worst ever. Just needlessly clunky and not satisfying at all. Click to expand... Click to shrink...
PlanetSmasher said: Red Dead Redemption 2 and Horizon's fast travel systems suck. Click to expand... Click to shrink...
Älg said: RDR2 didn't even have fast travel until a solid year after release AFAIK. Frankly they should've never even added it in the first place, it lessens the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink...
Älg said: I remember God of War Ragnarok being super annoying. I don't mind fast travel being inconvenient is the inconvenience serves a purpose, like in Death Stranding or RDR2, but GoW allows you to teleport wherever almost whenever but they still kept that super annoying Yggdrasil part even when the characters have nothing to say. Should've just been Open the door -> arrive at location. RDR2 didn't even have fast travel until a solid year after release AFAIK. Frankly they should've never even added it in the first place, it lessens the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink...
PlanetSmasher said: Nah, it was in there at launch. It was just the carriage/stagecoach system, which was so cumbersome it's easy to forget it exists. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Violence Jack

Violence Jack

Drive-in mutant.

Any game that makes me have to visit a place and do something at that location to unlock fast travel sucks. I'm mostly talking about how it was done in the Saints Row remake. Spidey 2's is among the best I've played. Just so damn smooth and fast.  

Emobacca

Daddy JeanPi

Prophet of truth.

RPGam3r

Starfield has terrible fast travel mechanics, which is shocking bc that's how you "explore" in that game.  

toomanyalmonds

toomanyalmonds

Horizon making it something you to craft is probably the worst. Unlike the other examples that have more restrictive fast travel methods, It's not that kind of game and not trying to be in any other way.  

morrowind has fast travel

toomanyalmonds said: Horizon making it something you to craft is probably the worst. Unlike the other examples that have more restrictive fast travel methods, It's not that kind of game and not trying to be in any other way. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer

Selane said: Those things barely cost any resources and before long you could make one that had infinite uses anyway. I do agree that it was bad in RDR2. I understand that it's meant to be a slow paced game, and it's fine that you couldn't just fast travel wherever you wanted on the map. Requiring more effort to get to most places was fine, what pissed me off was how it was a pain to even fast travel back to your camp. THAT you should have been able to do from anywhere. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

OhmygoditsJROD

OhmygoditsJROD

Teyvat traveler.

Best: Any fast travel where I just point to a spot on the map I have uncovered and go there Worst: making me go to some sort of terminal in a game location to initiate it. Immersion be damned.  

Selane said: Those things barely cost any resources and before long you could make one that had infinite uses anyway. Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Nameless

FarSight XR-20

Not typical fast travel but Prey (2017). Either by spacewalking around the station's exterior or by speeding through the GUTS. https://www.thegamer.com/more-games-should-have-a-fast-travel-system-like-prey/  

LastNac

"Why walk when you can ride?"  

Mocha Joe

locking fast travel (of some kind) behind an amiibo in Skyward Sword HD  

Transistor

The Walnut King

Mocha Joe said: locking fast travel (of some kind) behind an amiibo in Skyward Sword HD Click to expand... Click to shrink...

v4-460px-Get-Fly-on-Pokemon-Yellow-Step-8-Version-3.jpg.webp

Ghost of Tsushima has to best I've even seen. You travel about anywhere and has incredibly fast loading for a PS4 game.  

Jubilant Duck

Jubilant Duck

Nameless said: Someone gets it. Much of RDR2's magic (and content) is exploration driven and baked naturally into the world. Fast Travel without serious limits and/or friction would just make it easy for people to miss even more of the ambient storytelling, meaningful attention to detail, emergent brilliance of the dynamic weather & wildlife systems, and all subtle ways in which the game uses immersion to express a specific time, place, and way of life. For my part, I played for 150 hours through the epilogue and didn't fast travel one single time (and there was still tons I didn't see). Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Revoltoftheunique

Revoltoftheunique

Best is you just fast travel to any location from wherever and the worst is having to go to a location where there is a teleporting gate or signpost or with extra steps (like gta where you call a taxi, wait for it to come, then you hop in and select a location, and then you ride to it).  

SilentObserver

SilentObserver

Ghost of Tsushima is black magic because of what they achieved on the slow-ass PS4. Every other game on PS4 you are waiting like 2-5min for loading. Ghost of Tsushima? 10-15sec.  

JumbiePrime

JumbiePrime

best is any that allows you to just open the map a teleport to a place you've been before. Nice , easy and effective worst is ESO . Unless you are using a shrine , you have to pay to fast travel and the price increases the more you do it .It'll eventually count back down to the base price but if you want to fast travel around with in a certain amount of time it can get pretty expensive  

Dinjoralo

I feel like one of the worst implementations, on a fundamental level, was how it worked in The Crew. You could fast-travel to anywhere that was revealed on your map, and you revealed a couple miles of the map around you. So you could fast-travel across the map and fill it out without any need to drive around. And you could grind money endlessly by just fast-travelling to landmarks in a loop. I guess this is counter to the actual intent of this thread, but I find it worth mentioning.  

Morrowind Mod:AITravel

Starts the NPC to travel to the given exterior position. The distance to the new coordinates cannot be too great (about 3000-4000 units), or the actor will not react, although this maybe related to trying to move the NPC to another cell (which often has problems). Use GetAIPackageDone function to determine when the actor reaches destination. Note that sleeping, teleporting, or fast travel will cause the actor to warp to the end-coordinates, but the GetAIPackageDone function will not fire - this can be a problem. The Z coordinates need only be approximate and all values must be literal, no variables accepted. AIpath grid helps, but is not mandatory.

As with other AI functions, issue this command only once or the results may not be as expected.

See Also: AIEscort , AIFollow , GetAIPackageDone , GetCurrentAIPackage

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morrowind has fast travel

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

morrowind has fast travel

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Morroblivion

Morroblivion

lukkar's picture

Despite of sentimental issues I noticed several things:

- In MW before any traveling, you had to organize some supplies and some money. It also took some time to get from city/town to particular place. So any traveling costs sth. Now after some point it is totally free.

- What I remember I barely used transporting services in Skyrim. So it will be the same in Skywind example.

- It would be odd to just revisiting mainland from Solstheim, without any problems.

- Island seems to be smaller.

- Absolutely most important. You will skip a lot of sidequests when you will use fast travel.

Pros are just that it is annoying to moving from one place to another without fast travel. Especially when you played many hours. Then it is too repetitive and unnecessary.

So I have some ideas from easiest to implement to hardest one:

1. You can use fast travel after reaching some level. Maybe 15th or lees

2. You can fast travel only between cities/towns. You can't travel from Solstheim to Vvanderfell and otherwise. It costs money.

3.Complex system I just quote myself from other topic:

lukkar wrote:

Interrupting fast travel I'm not coder but I think it is quite hard to implement but possible to do and cool feature. Red points are event point. Unfortunately they should be placed manually. In event points you find bandits/deadly fauna/other enemies. Level of enemies depends on your level. To travel further u have to of course clear out nearby area like in vanilla. You have some radius around u which covered red points from area A to B. Depends on your skills or whatever u have some probability rate to meet event. Most points can be based on roads This solution despite of tons of work and probability of bugs has got a plenty of advantages. - some area could have more events. It means you have to be better prepared before u travel though for example Red mountain Region instead from Pelagiad to Vivec. - if u are not strong enough u can use vanilla transport system instead of fast travel. -as in vanilla u have to have collect some supply before travel. -to avoid too annoying interrupting it can be activate only over longer distances . -your chances of detecting by bandits/animals can be lower due to your sneaking skill and your level. After some point you will be not interrupted.
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alysander's picture

Must be nice to give player ability to fast travel after:    (1) : reaching enough locations on the map (~25)    (2) : reaching (and first using) corresponding transport services (almost all).    (3) : reaching enough locations in some region - then player can fast travel IN THIS REGION. Another, most plausible variant : you can fast travel from transport services VIA DIALOG with additional cost. So boatman from Vivec can move you to some island of Ascadian Islands. As corr. mage of guild can move you to any propylon after quest - it can be made smth alike.  

Smitehammer's picture

You want fast travel? Grab the Boots of Blinding speed. :P

Really no problem if you have levitation, but some inferior barbarian can use fast travel. This can be complement : you can use Almsivi Intervention to go city, and fast travel via dialog with mages|boatmen|driver to go in wilderness.  

Dragomir's picture

Why even bother making complex systems? The way Morrowind handled exploration was pretty good, and most of the annoyances were due to small vision radius (player often couldn't see far enough to follow directions properly). I'd just leave it at how Morrowind handled it, but if some unpatient grinder wants to use fast travel, it's still in there :P

Ravanna's picture

Whatever systems we impliment, one rule to live by: give the player the choice. If you're hardcore, you roleplay and either walk or use silts/cloudstriders/carts etc. If you want to see the world, but you're impatient, jump on a guar. If you're more casual, and u're finishing off side quests, fast travel. No level limitations. For some players, that is restricting, and they will get irritated and stop playing. Any limitations should be an addon for only those who want it.

DeathToHighElves's picture

I completely agree but i would be fine if it didn't even have fast travel at all. Morrowind has a relatively small map compared to Skyrim and has more of an adventure factor than the other games.

Fast travel could be just optional thing in menu. Which would be mentioned in manual.

- So then you have unlimited Fast Travel

- Restricted Fast Travel (default)

- No Fast Travel

------------------

For me this is most clear representation and really easy to change for player. Adding this as separate esp. file (or whatever in Skyrim it is called) would be quite messy.

alysander wrote:

Must be nice to give player ability to fast travel after:    (1) : reaching enough locations on the map (~25)    (2) : reaching (and first using) corresponding transport services (almost all).    (3) : reaching enough locations in some region - then player can fast travel IN THIS REGION.

This is quite good idea, and sounds much less complex than mine. I think this could be combined with 3 all. It will encourage to traveling. So I will change this formula a bit.

(1) : reaching enough locations on the map ( ~30 ) (2) : reaching (and first using) corresponding transport services (use Slit Strider ~6, Gondola ~4, Boat ~6, Teleport ~3) . (3) : reaching enough locations in some region - then player can fast travel IN THIS REGION. (~8)

Then you get some notification about your new ability.

Most fun will be interrupted fast travel like in Fallout 1,2 but first thing is that if anyone want to implement sth like that.

LoneWolfEburg's picture

Yeah, I fail to see the issue. Disable, it like in vanilla Morrowind, with an option to enable it like Oblivion. Maybe add a couple of additional Slit Strider and boar routes.

Taerkalith's picture

@LoneWolfEburg, Yeah Sounds great, but who wants to write the script to get it in game? That's the real issue. :P If anyone seriously wants this menu option in-game I'd suggest petitioning someone with experience in this area to see if they want to spend the time doing it. Otherwise it won't get touched.

TheDjango's picture

Fast travel? Traveling fast? that must take some real magic to perform, no dumb impatient Nord will figure it out! -Maiq

As I recall the player had a whole armada of spells and scrolls to teleport around the island, which was really immersive, since you had to learn to fast travel. You could also jump across the entire island or sprint if you took enough potions or made enough enchantments, so in actual fact, "fast travel" was one of the most fun things imaginable, if very time consuming... but thats what a real RPG is all about riiight? :P

Even so, skywind is going to be a modern game, so as long as all the original fun things hardcore players like myself love are included, I have no problems with any of the systems proposed here :D

morrowind has fast travel

I really see no need to make complex a non cannon game mechanic, just make an option in the installer that changes the .ini to allow fast travel and quest markers or disable them. This allows people to play how they feel like playing and not lessen the preferences because a small minority deems it unsightly. Plus the whole you can fast travel at level X and or so many locations discovered could be a mod worked on post release, why put it on the workload now? On first playthroughs I don't use fast travel (or not at all on older games) but on second or third ones I use it to save time and allow it to be convenient when I have little time to play due to work, family, or other real world related problems. So it's just my two sense, but your free to limit how people play as it's your time spent developing a game.

Tarn IV's picture

I agree that it should just be an on or off sort of thing, but depending on how difficult it is to code it, it would be nice to have an option in the launcher or options menu.

It's not that hard to do an on/off thing, it is available in the .ini's. [GamePlay]

bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1

bShowQuestMarkers=1

Simply change these to 0 in the Skyrimpref.ini

And isn't there an option to disable map markers in the in-game options? OR you can still do quests without marking them and not using fast travel  

P.S enablefasttravel 0 in console.

What I can say, it can be feature in most advanced example or it can be limitation in the easiest one. Only my concern is to make it user-friendly. It really depends who will executed this. The plus is it can be added anytime. On this stage is just concept.

Yeah I'm fine with it being completely optional either way. I however personally don't want "vanilla" Skywind to have it in, (I'm referencing the Lvl.X/X locations needed idea) It's not a bad idea at all but it should be optional. Vanilla Skywind should contain Fast travel and map markers and if people wish to play without it tick a box in the installer to turn them off. Also the Lvl.X/X locations should be a add-on only available in the installer like Morroblivion's addon's (tree replacer, map changer, and transport mods).

I think best option is add tick a box option in mod menu than in installer. These are console things which don't change game itself (in the limitations examples). You can disable when you want, not only before installing. If someone will not like new system than he/she will disable without any effort.

-------------

I think coding dep will decide what they can implement or not in this place. For now this all what I can say this topic.

TheComfyCushion's picture

I don't think there is any need to modify Skyrim's fast travel system. If you don't want to fast travel, don't fast travel.

Forcing players out of the fast travel option seems too extreme.

Same thing I said Comfy, I hope that is the way it is left as an option.

no1's picture

1 if u want every 1 to not fast travel but its there standard the wil fast travel because lazy/ignorance

2 if u got fast travel optional  the wil not  go true the options to put it on because lazy/ignorance

also i am lazy but cant play whit out map marker so that would 1 not 2 

Acheryus's picture

I think people are over thinking this. put the toggelable option in the settings menu, with the initial status as being off. that way it is there is you want it, and not mandatory for those who do not. 

Billyro's picture

I'm not sure if it's possible, but I think an interesting alternative could be an advanced Mark and Recall spell. If you could, say, mark 5 locations and then recall to each of them, then the player would have enough places to travel to without it becoming tedious to move around the island. 

If I used this spell, I'd probably mark locations like Balmora, Vivec, Ald-ruhn, Sadrith Mora and the Urshilaku Camp. This would allow me to travel pretty much all around the island in a lore-friendly way, without using the lazy Skyrim fast travel system. Also, the spell could possibly even be a power so that it could only be used once a day, if balancing issues were a problem.  

Yes, this is nice idea for magic mechanic thread, but looks like this topic is more about what thief, trader or barbarian would do.

I think a thief or trader could buy scrolls of mark and recall (maybe slightly more expensive than Silt Strider travel, boat travel, etc.) and use those. Or maybe the Scrolls of Mark do not disappear after use, so you only need to buy one, but Scrolls of Recall do disappear, and you have to buy many. 

As for a barbarian... I'm not sure. They'd probably be better suited to hiking or riding guars than teleportation. I know that if I was playing as a warrior, I'd still use the scrolls to get around. 

Scrollicious's picture

My suggestions:

1. Make fast travel more expensive than transporting services.

2. Make fast travel into a perk so that the player can earn it.

maxnosense's picture

I think we should not bother with complicated solutions to this. It will take up a lot of work and be complicated to balance and there is nothing to gain from it. I think we should default fast travel to be disallowed and enabling the player to turn it on again as he wishes while giving him a warning that that is not how Morrowind - and therefore Skywind - is designed to be played and it might ruin the experience. Anyone who still turns it on can not be helped and I hope he enjoys it either way, but thinking about these people too much when designing the game should be secondary to making the default experience to be as good as possible. Adding perks or unlocking fast travel through game mechanics makes it feel like the player is supposed to be using it now, which is not how the world and the quests were designed to work with best, so this doesn' seem like a good solution to me.

Vivec's picture

maxnosense wrote:

This. A complicated system will just confuse and frustrate players for little gain.

boc120's picture

Yes, I like Max's idea.

Still, it would be nice to have more points of boat-transport to unload.

I dig this topic again. I usually prefer to use already existing system than finding out new one. And of course simple solutions are the best. I think the best implementation could be done like in Witcher 3 . It solves almost every problem. It doesn't kill exploration like fast travel in Oblivion/Skyrim but it is not so tedious and annoying (especially in later game) like system in MW. It could be only off during "traveling quests".

The only problem could UI in map. Yes I know we have much a lot of signs in game. My proposition is add some kind of static lamp to active signs, and give them some colored icon on world map. So not every sign works but you easily recognize which one (especially during nighttime). The only creative work will be to acknowledge which sign works and which not, mostly for game balance.

Crestycomb's picture

I haven't read through all of this thread, but I really don't see the problem. We WILL have a configuration menu in game, you can just select whether you want fast travel to be enabled or not. Theres always silt striders and the mage's guild. And Morrowind isn't that big anyway, you can just run anywhere without much issues.

Honestly both solutions are so poor in my opinion. If so many ppl like unrestricted fast-travel or old Morrowind transport system (on begging is fun but later in game it is really annoying) so be it. I just found out that this solution works reallly reallly well during game and it doesn't sound too hard to implement even as secondary option. It consist of only (marker, icon (which I can even make my own), and added one or two lamps to sign).

The Witcher 3 is different from the morrowind system, since you have to actually first visit the sign post to travel to it. Morrowind however, you have to pay, but you can go basically anywhere you want.

The Witcher 3 is different from the morrowind system, since you have to actually first visit the sign post to travel to it.

In this case it would be the same. Just like any other loaction.

--------------------

Ok, ok I understand, topic closed. I will use in my personal experience original MW solution first later I'll disable it. Probably after 10-15 hours.

>#witcher >#transportation >#morrowind --- * dreams about whistle-called silt-strider :)

OrdoCorvus's picture

Just my two cents as a game developer: What we're looking at here is a feature.

An optional, Morrowind-like system with silt striders and boats and limited fast travel between fixed locations would be great, but unnecessary. -But, a certain group of players will be mildly upset if it's not included, but will most likely play anyways.

Skyrim-like fast travel between pre-discovered locations is essentially already there in the game code, and would require little or not additional work from the team to implement.-But, a certain group of players will be mildly upset if it's not included, but will most likely play anyways. Doing away with fast travel entirely will force exploration and require little input from the development team to implement. -But, a certain group of players will be mildly upset if it's  included, but will most likely play anyways.

Notice a trend here? First off, it's going to be impossible to please everyone. No plan survives contact with the enemy, or the players, as it were. Secondly, doing anything but Skyrim-default is going to be extra work. I'd suggest that focus should be placed entirely on getting the thing playable. Once we have successfully ressurected TESIII within TESV, then we can worry about going about adding neat features like Morrowind-like travel systems, but until that time I think it should be considered low priority.  

Even in the risk of repeating myself: Implementing a Morrowind-like fast travel system requires almost 0 work. These scripts are terribly easy to write and even they weren't, they are already included with Skyrim.

Making it "optional" is not unnecessary. It much rather allows any player to choose between experiencing the game as it was designed, or experiencing it in a more comfortable way which may disrupt the flow of the game. I would recommend you to read through the entire thread if there's any question about it, I detailed my impression of what I think the final design should be.

In my opinion, this system is actually a central part of what made the original Morrowind experience which is why I consider it anything but a minor issue. I always think options are great, but we should give the player a clear direction of how the game should be experienced, so we should stick to the original as default.

Indeed. And that brings me to another point I wanted to bring up for quite a while now - map markers as a whole.

Morrowind had only a hand full of those for main cities and settlements. Currently, Skywind has one for every dungeon, cave, ruin and tomb. Thats over 200 markers, and after a point, it starts getting annoying seeing the name of the location pop up on your screen. Is it really necessary? I think another part of the mystery of Morrowind, apart from the annoying fog, was the lack of any map markers. Sure, in Skyrim/ Skywind you have to first go over and 'discover' the place first, but even so, it takes out a bit of mystery out of it. Half of the time I saw an entrance to a cave in Morrowind, I didnt know if it was going to be a bandit hideout, egg or ebony mine. With all of these unique map markers for every type of cave and ruin, it takes out another part of mystery out of the game. 

/Start rant/ 

I could say the same thing about the actual map of the game, in which you can basically explore the whole province if you set your fov to a low enough number. It spoils a lot of things like the landscapes, cities etc. 

I think why it was designed the way it was is because Todd Howard thought 'Huh, what would be cool to show in our e3 demo... How about a map that is rendered in real time that shows the actual landscape?'. And it does sound cool, and indeed, looks cool, but it spoils the mystery of the landscape.

At the risk of sounding like a broken phone, I'll say the same about the compass - it spoils what is ahead. You have a magic gps device that is always (not with the iHUD mod though) on your hud that scans every location around you in real time and displays it to you. It really ruins the spontaneity of discovering something.

Eh, its not like we are going to change the way the compass and world map works (possibly change the map markers though?) for Skywind, but I just had to take that off my chest.

I agree on a lot of those things and some of those shouldn't be a problem actually. It should be possible to change the way the map is displayed, at least the textures. Giving different map versions with or without map markers for locations other than cities shouldn't be a problem either, which would partly solve your compass problems.

I don't have any issues with that. When I play Morrowind, I don't even use the in game map anymore, I have a huge Vvardenfell map poster on my wall and I use that for reference. 

I tried doing the same with Skyrim, but the quest descriptions were not descriptive enough to play without map markers.  Then I found  this mod , which disables the player marker on the map, so I could still see what place I need to go, but not where I am. But that had an issue that when you open the map, while you couldn't see the player icon, the camera would still point towards you.

But playing without a map is just my own little thing that I do to make playing open world games more enjoyable. We could always do something like this mod did, and then disable most of the map markers, and I think that would be enough for a fairly true Morrowind experience.

I just really don't want the player's first look into the crater of Red Mountain to be through a god damn satellite above Tamriel...

Crestycomb wrote:

We could always do something like this mod did, and then disable most of the map markers, and I think that would be enough for a fairly true Morrowind experience.

That's what I had in mind

<Disclaimer: I may need to eat - feeling a bit grumpy> Morrowind listed quite a few locations of the map - So I don't know if disabling them all makes sense but there is a really simple solution here for everyone's individual desires. Just leave it as is. For anyone who wants something more akin to the original game like limited fast travel, or limited map markers, just create an .esp that does this that can be toggled on as an optional feature. Do not post if you want something. go do it and then come back here and post a link to the .esp for others to use. These are really simple things to do. limited map markers - delete any map markers you don't want. the records in the .esp will remove them from the game. This should have no negative effect on quests, but be aware you won't receive a "discovered" text and music upon your initial arrival. If you want this feature, just do it. It's probably the easiest thing you can do in the CK. For people that don't want any at all. Here you go limited fast travel - disable fast travel for the worldspace should do it. Oh, look I got off my soapbox and did it in 10 mins. I guess this is what happens when I get sick of seeing dead threads revived with no end in sight.: Here you go

I don't think any feature should be off by default. It's fine to give players the option of turning off fast travel or limiting map markers, but it shouldn't launch that way.

I don't know why these discussions keep popping up again all the time. Everyone who has some idea of scripting knows that this is not a question of technical possibilities, it has been mentioned quite a few times.

As for the design decisions, this is something we will have to set an idea of what it should be like, playtest it and go with what works best.

Disabling fast-travel by default - as I said earlier - is NOT stripping the game of a feature, but rather giving the players a clear recommendation about what we - as the developers - think is the best way for this game to be played. Giving them the option to turn it on again is a feature we should add because some people might not want to follow that recommendation, but "everything that's possible should be enabled by default" is not a sensible rationale for a design decision imho.

And I think we should end this thread here. Different concepts have been proposed and most of them will be easy to implement, try out and evaluate, so when everything is ready for testing we'll just do exactly that, and ultimately go with what we think gives the players the best experience and include everything else as an option.

JorgenGorgen's picture

I still don't see why this is a discussion at all.  Rather than wasting time and memory on code to disable/re-enable it, why not just allow people to decide for themselves.  Anyone can do a no fast travel run without changing a single setting, by simply not utilizing fast travel.  I've done it myself several times, other people have done it, why complicate things?

I totally agree, I just went on a small tangent.

JorgenGorgen wrote:

I've done it myself several times, other people have done it, why complicate things?

As I said again, this does not complicate anything more than putting the game in full screen mode by default complicates it for people who want to play in windowed mode. I don't know who of you have any experience with design or have ever read a paper about it, but let me tell you one thing:

The majority of the people will not make their own design decision when enjoying a user experience but instead stick with the default one. This is the reason why only about 10% of the Skyrim players ever download mods, even though it's so easy. It's also part of the reason why Apple is so successful with their policy of taking options away from their users and instead focus their resources on optimizing the default experience. This may sound weird to us tech-savvy / experimental type of people who like to customize their experience with the aim of getting the best out of it, but it's just what it is.

If the user does not have any prior information about what setting would be optimal for a given option, he will stick to the default one and may later come back to change it, should it turn out they might prefer another setting. And that is exactly the reason why I vote for defaulting "no-Skyrim-style-fast-travel", because a) it's the experience the original game was designed for and we aim for keeping it that way (we have the same quests, the same focus on interesting environments and the original writing for the most part) and b) it gives users an incentive to try out this way, and all users who will be frustrated by that setting will come back to change it, so they get their experience anyway.

Now, if we do it the other way, most people will just use fast-travel and be done with it. It's the option they know from Skyrim and it's comfortable, so why should they switch it off.

tl;dr: There are reasonable arguments for why the game is more enjoyable without fast travel. There are reasonable arguments why enabling (Skyrim style) fast travel by default would make a lot of people miss out on that experience. Disabling it by default gives everyone a reason to see if they can enjoy this experience, while those who don't like it can still enable fast travel again.

@maxnosense, I personally will play with fast travel turned off and would be in support as having it be the default and just include the optional "turn fast travel on" .esp on the page download page as the main file. That way the default is the intended experience, while the normal skyrim mechanic is available by downloading the less than 2kb in size .esp sitting on the same page. Would anyone in the dev community be overtly opposed to this situation? If so, I'm okay with the other way around, but my vote would be for it to be off. Having it off will help make the world seems larger which was a big part of some morrowind quests (and also means spells like mark/recall, almsivi and divine intervention mean something)

Mo...'s picture

Please no fast travel!!!

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  6. Why Morrowind's Fast Travel Is So Much Better Than Skyrim's

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COMMENTS

  1. Absolute Beginner's Guide to Fast Travel : r/Morrowind

    Welcome to r/Morrowind, a subreddit dedicated to Bethesda's 2002 open world RPG, the third installment in the The Elder Scrolls series. Absolute Beginner's Guide to Fast Travel. This is the absolute beginner's guide to fast travel in Morrowind! Regardless of your build, you will be doing lots and lots of travel. Let's see how efficient we ...

  2. Morrowind:Transport

    Morrowind:Transport. Route map showing quick-transport options throughout Vvardenfell. Vvardenfell is a vast landscape. There is even a quest whose sole objective is to walk from one side of the map to the other without talking to anyone, and this is likely to be an undertaking of half an hour or more, depending on how fast you can move.

  3. Steam Community :: Guide :: How to fast travel in Marrowind

    This is a guide on fast travel. As you may know, there is no offcial fast travel system in Marrowind created for the end user. However, via the debug console, you can easily travel between towns, anywhere in the world. How To Do This: To use this method, follow these steps: 1. Press the "~" button on your keyboard. This will open the console.

  4. Why Morrowind's Fast Travel Is So Much Better Than Skyrim's

    Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowwind has the best fast travel system in the series. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim might have been efficient when it comes to traveling, but it lacks the design elements present in Morrowind. Traversing the world of an Elder Scrolls game is a key aspect in their entertainment, as they are designed to encourage discovery and exploration.

  5. New to morrowind. Is fast travel necessary? : r/Morrowind

    You'll end up doing a fair amount of that anyway because the fast travel is more of a "subway stop" system than an "air-drop" system. Morrowind's fast travel feels a lot more like a subway map than a "point-click-go" fast-travel. It also leaves vast swaths of the island unconnected to fast travel requiring walking every time unless you set up ...

  6. A Short Guide to Fast Travel in Morrowind

    The basics of getting around in Morrowind. Show this video to your grandmother so that she may attain enlightenment. Previous video on Fast Travel: https://y...

  7. How to conveniently fast travel anywhere in Elder Scrolls Morrowind

    Website: http://www.almarsguides.comPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/almarsguidesFor more guides and information about each game be sure to check out my webs...

  8. How to fast travel in Morrowind ...

    A video on different forms of fast travel in Morrowind: https://youtu.be/B3fKU1bXcCAView my current mods here: http://raboninco.com/1611174/mwmodsIf you want...

  9. Morrowind:Speed

    Since Morrowind has fewer fast-travel options than other games in the series, Speed is especially relevant. Speed increases the distance covered when jumping forward, allowing someone with a high Speed value to jump over wide gaps without the need for magic effects such as Levitate or Jump. Movement speed is heavily affected by a character's ...

  10. A Short Guide to Fast Travel in Morrowind

    A Short Guide to Fast Travel in Morrowind. "The basics of getting around in Morrowind. Show this video to your grandmother so that she may attain enlightenment. I don't delete comments unless they are obvious spam or exceptionally insulting. I record with Bandicam and edit with Adobe Premiere Pro.

  11. are there any good fast travel mods? : r/Morrowind

    Welcome to r/Morrowind, a subreddit dedicated to Bethesda's 2002 open world RPG, the third installment in the The Elder Scrolls series. ... Hell, you can already fast travel to any city in the game that has any relevance for all but the most obscure lines of the main/faction quests besides the ashlander camps, ...

  12. Faster running and fast travel :: The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

    redeem4 Sep 10, 2015 @ 3:35pm. I absolutely agree with you when it comes to the running speed and travel system of this game. Morrowind would have been much better if your running speed was naturally pretty fast -- I recommend looking online for where the boots of blinding speed are and how to fix the negative effects of it; These boots made ...

  13. Best and worst fast travel implementations?

    9,894. 40 minutes ago. #3. Morrowind has one of the best fast travel implementations ever. It does involve a few more steps than Skyrim, but it is also more flexible (mark/recall). But more importantly, it achieves a greater sense of immersion than Skyrim cause it is integrated with the progression systems and lore framework of the world itself ...

  14. Morrowind Mod:AITravel

    tarenScript. Starts the NPC to travel to the given exterior position. The distance to the new coordinates cannot be too great (about 3000-4000 units), or the actor will not react, although this maybe related to trying to move the NPC to another cell (which often has problems). Use GetAIPackageDone function to determine when the actor reaches ...

  15. An Example Of Fast Travel Done Right

    Fast Travel isn't all bad! There are tons of great RPG's with fantastic fast travel systems, and The Elder Scrolls Morrowind has one of the best. Its a syste...

  16. Andromedas Fast Travel at Morrowind Nexus

    The idea is something my girlfriend Shelley (aka Andromeda) had. The idea was to add some form of simple fast travel into Morrowind. The mod is intended as an immersive form of fast travel, allowing the player to travel to whatever location is shown on a signpost. If you see a road sign you can click on it, be prompted with a menu confirming if ...

  17. why no fast travel in morrowind is bad : r/ElderScrolls

    Free fast travel in Morrowind is treated as a reward for doing something other than just showing up to a place. Sure Morrowind starts out slow but once you really get the hang of everything and you've leveled up then it feels even more rewarding because you knew how punishing the game could be early on. So there's my two cents, n'wah.

  18. Immersive Travel

    A mod that adds real-time travel with smooth movement on striders, boats, ships, gondolas and river striders (with TR). The mod also has many quality of life features. ... Morrowind. close. Games. videogame_asset My games. When logged in, you can choose up to 12 games that will be displayed as favourites in this menu. chevron_left.

  19. Any fast travel mods? :: The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind General

    if you feel travel is bad i can give you a few tips. Mark/Recall. you can find Mark/Recall amulets pretty commonly. Mark: marks a spot. Recall: Recall will goto wherever mark was last cast (you do not need to cast Mark after recalling to keep it marked) a VERY helpful tip i found for Mark/Recall is put it in the Balmora Mages Guild next to the ...

  20. The problem of Fast Travel.

    Even in the risk of repeating myself: Implementing a Morrowind-like fast travel system requires almost 0 work. These scripts are terribly easy to write and even they weren't, they are already included with Skyrim. Making it "optional" is not unnecessary. It much rather allows any player to choose between experiencing the game as it was designed ...

  21. Fast Travel : r/Morrowind

    Ironically, Balmora is one of the best fast travel ports in the game. The Imperial Fort (teleport to via Divine Intervention) lets you teleport to the temple (via Almsivi Intervention) and right outside it is the Mage's Guild (teleports to all major cities), and a Silt Strider that also goes to major locations (one having a boat nearby). 42.

  22. Stronghold Fast Travel at Morrowind Nexus

    About this mod. This mod will add fast travel NPCs to the game world upon reaching stage 3 on your great house stronghold. Also, after becoming the Nerevarine and defeating Dagoth Ur you'll receive a band to teleport you to the stronghold as well as other special merchants. This mod adds new fast travel NPCs to locations around Vvardenfell to ...

  23. U.S. airlines warn of more Boeing delivery delays over safety crisis

    The airline industry has cut expectations for deliveries this year due to Boeing's problems, complicating their efforts to meet record travel demand.

  24. Is there a good Fast Travel Mod out there? : r/Morrowind

    Once had a teleport ring mod that teleported you to any city, master trainer, mudcrab merchant and a few other places of interest. Could probably just knock that up in the construction set. Andromeda's Fast Travel lets you fast travel to cities and towns by clicking on the signposts.